Where Lupe is God!
Ralph Nader is actually a great man, and what he said was not whining like a bitch, it was actually some real shit. Obama CAN become a great president, but he can also work for corporations and oil companies. As long as we hold Obama to a certain standard and keep showing that we're not going to stop at just the election, btu we're willing to keep working to make sure things get done, then this country could only then benefit from anything. So far, Obama is president, and that's great, but that's only the first step.
I stood in line for less than an hour. I was lucky in compared to others. I'm glad to be apart of history. Go Obama! However I hope the American people realize that Obama cannot change things by himself. We have to take responsibility for ourselves and in some cases others. Obama has a very long and hard road ahead of him. I hope the American people practice patience and humility. Yes We Can!!!!!!!!! If we take the initiative.
whoever the first anonymous is...is an idiot. The problem isn't waht he said. It's the fact that he had the audacity to say Uncle Tom. That's ridiculous, racist, and uncalled for. And great man? He spoiled the 2000 election by stealing votes from Gore, because running is worthless when u get 3000 votes in an entire state. He is politically irrelevant and needs to understand. He's run for president like 7 times. GOOFY
So we should ignore all he says (which is all very true stuff) just because he uses a phrase like "uncle tom" (even though Ralph Nader is clearly not racist, and did not mean it like that). That makes sense.Also, he didn't spoil the election by "stealing" votes. He never stole votes. Al Gore never HAD those votes to begin with because he didn't earn them. Al Gore was a shitty candidate, John Kerry was a shitty candidate, and that is why Ralph Nader ran in 2000 and in 2004. People talk about how he ran so many times as if it's something bad. It's nice to see a guy like Nader sticking up for the consumers.This country's 2-party system is messed up. In order for it to be a democracy, people like Nader should feel free to run as many times as they like. Go ahead and spew your hatred, but at the end of the day, YOU'RE the one who doesn't understand. Nader understands perfectly and is only irrelevant to the ignorant minds who choose not to listen.
In theory Independent parties exist to give the people another option besides the good ol' democrats and republicans, but in reality Independent parties help democrats and republicans get informed on what the people want, things they might not have caught on to. In life, it isn't what you say, it's how you say it, and quite frankly, he messed up. "Uncle Tom", is "educated" talk for "You'z a N**** and we all know", no offense. And if he didn't mean it to come out that way, he should have redeemed himself at the last minute when he was asked whether or not he would have chosen another word, in retrospect.Let me ask you this, had it been a white man who won the election, what word would he have used then? You think "Uncle Tom" would have still applied. It's not what you say, it's how you say it and you can't catch bees without honey - people will hate him for that comment.
to the anonymous under me...againAl Gore did have those votes...dummyExit polls showed that if Ralph Nader hadn't run, 75% of his voters WOULD HAVE voted for Gore. Thus, if u look at 75% of 4000. It's 3000. How many votes did Bush win by (tho cheated)? 500 somethin. Do the math, folk.And it is something bad to run so many times. Not knowing when to quit is a bad quality. At the end of the day I understand perfectly. Ralph Nader can go ahead and run, but its fruitless, and thus him babbling is a waste of my time. He's lefter than left can be, so even if it were a viable option he's too far to one extreme.And again, he did mean Uncle Tom in that way. You can only mean nigger one way. You can only mean insults one way. He fucked up and refused to admit it. Michael Richards part deux
Al Gore did have those votes...dummyExit polls showed that if Ralph Nader hadn't run, 75% of his voters WOULD HAVE voted for Gore. Thus, if u look at 75% of 4000. It's 3000. How many votes did Bush win by (tho cheated)? 500 somethin. Do the math, folk.And it is something bad to run so many times. Not knowing when to quit is a bad quality. At the end of the day I understand perfectly. Ralph Nader can go ahead and run, but its fruitless, and thus him babbling is a waste of my time. He's lefter than left can be, so even if it were a viable option he's too far to one extreme.And again, he did mean Uncle Tom in that way. You can only mean nigger one way. You can only mean insults one way. He fucked up and refused to admit it. Michael Richards part deuxS-preme, you have a problem using logic, so let me help you.Al Gore did NOT have those votes. The reality is Ralph Nader DID run. And Ralph Nader EARNED those votes. Al Gore never earned them. He would be a bad alternative to voters had Nader not run, but the truth is that this country allows more than 2 people to run for president (though unfairly) and those votes were given to Nader fairly.And to criticize Nader's quality is pathetic. The point of him running is NOT that he doesn't know when to quit, it's that year after year we keep putting up horrible candidates who do not take the REAL issues into account.And to also claim he meant Uncle Tom in a racist way is very stupid. Uncle Tom is different than 'nigger'. Uncle Tom is used as "a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin, although there is debate over whether the character himself is deserving of the pejorative attributed to him. Stowe never meant Uncle Tom to be a degrading character, but the term as a pejorative has developed based on how later versions of the character, stripped of his strength, were depicted on stage.It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_tomRalph Nader isn't a moron, and knows what he's doing. He speaks for the lowest class of America, which happens to be made up of many minorities, whereas Obama has not spoken about the poor. That was his point. And he didn't CALL Obama an Uncle Tom, he said Obama has the choice to either be an Uncle Sam for the American people or not. That's the point that people miss when they want to try to be politically correct and bullshit themselves.
sorry fam...but you are wrong. regardless of what you think, Uncle Tom is not an acceptable thing to say about a black person, period. You must not be black or you would see. It's a word that is HISTORICALLY racist, thus it is racist in any way it is used. It's bad from black and white people. Ralph Nader SHOULD NOT have said it.And the reality is that Ralph Nader did steal votes. Talk to any poli-sci professor or political strategist. AT LEAST 1/5 of the votes he gets nationwide are "just because" votes. meaning that someone votes Just because, not based on issues. So if you apply that logic, which YOU not I are incapable of using, you would see that he TOOK votes away.I can firmly assert that he took votes because (yes this applies to his relevance as a politician) he is irrelevant. If you run 8 times and never win, its a waste of time to run. Maybe if he is so dead set on changing this country he could do something constructive. Bitching and moaning about the 2 party system (that this country was built on and will never change) he should do something about it and actually enact change.He also is not the most competent candidate. My man Ralph is out of touch with the main stream, because while he does focus on the poorest and worst off, he forgets that the majority of the country is middle class. Poor people don't make up the bulk of this country so to tell everyone else that their issues aren't important is ridiculous.Again back to Uncle Tom...it's demeaning BECAUSE of its historical context. You cannot separate a word or phrase from the history behind it. Thus, when viewing the phrase uncle tom (and its associations with both minstrel shows and black face performers) it IS DEROGATORY and I don't care what you say, but NO ONE regardless of race EVER has the right to call a black man that. EVER. POINT BLACK, PERIOD.Like the pundit said...there's a billion better ways to phrase what he said. But he choice an ignorant Michael Richardsian way to do it.
Actually, it was not originally meant to be racist, it was simply turned that way. And it can still be applied to a black man who puts white leaders in favor of his own race. It's not always a derogatory term and your close-mindedness is what makes you ignore the point of it. The fact of the matter is that the fact that he used Uncle Tom is irrelevant. He has a VERY important point to make, and he made it well. Fox News, the most horrible channel, does what it always does - focuses on irrelevant factors and not the core issue. The reality is that Ralph Nader DID. NOT. STEAL VOTES FROM GORE. You can't "steal" votes. It's an abstract idea made up just to get people to dislike Nader. The point is people voted for Nader because he attacked issues that Gore ignored. The fact that you choose to ignore the idea that the dem candidates have been horrible proves this. Feel free to provide a source to prove your assertion that 1/5 votes were "just because" though that really makes no sense. Al Gore, if anyone, had plenty of "just because [he's a democrat]" votes, whereas most, if not all, of Ralph Nader's supporters were ardent supporters of his policies and ideals.Also, calling him irrelevant just makes no sense. Logically, it makes absolutely no sense. You can't call a person irrelevant. In this day and age, in fact, his ideas are more relevant than ever. Corporations, especially during the Bush years, have been controlling everything, as we have witnessed ourselves. Ralph Nader has been speaking out against that and does many consumer advocacy work. He's truly 'relevant' if anything.He doesn't just "bitch about the 2 party system." In fact, Ralph Nader does more work than Obama can ever preach about. When Nader was Obama's age, he was a true success in speaking out for the betterment of the American people. To call Ralph Nader out as if he has done nothing is a false accusation, and ridiculous.Ralph Nader does not 'focus solely on the poor', he simply thinks they are being completely ignored in favor of the middle class, when in reality, NO ONE should be ignored. Seeing as how many poor people also happen to be black, he finds it weird that Obama has not mentioned the poor yet, AT ALL. It's great to work for the middle class, but not at the expense of the poor class either. They are people too, and need to be respected in that sense. Nader has done plenty of work for both the middle class, and the poor class and so should Obama. That's all he was saying.Again, you keep going BACK to Uncle Tom which is really pretty irrelevant and detracts from the main issue. Also, you clearly don't know the historical context because it wasn't always a derogatory phrase, it can also mean something else.Also, you say:"NO ONE regardless of race EVER has the right to call a black man that. EVER. POINT BLACK, PERIOD."But the point is, and I'm going to have to say this AGAIN, since you didn't get it the first time - NADER DID NOT CALL OBAMA UNCLE TOM. nader said obama has the CHOICE to either be an uncle sam and work for the people, or not. he did not say obama IS an uncle tom, he said obama CAN be an uncle tom IF he works for the betterment of corporations over the people.Also, quit bringing up the Michael Richards ordeal; it's irrelevant to this issue.
here we go again...you CANNOT INGORE HISTORICAL CONTEXTso...Back to Uncle Tom. It has been historically used to degrade black people, by both whit and black people. The beginnings of the word (in which it was still derogatory...read Stowe's book, it doesn't paint the main character as a good person), aside, the word has been used in history to both confine black people into stereotypical roles and to hinder racial equality (placing the white man as above a black man), so regardless of HOW he meant it, Ralph Nader called Obama a little nigger who is subservient to corporations. Saying it's his choice is still calling him a little nigger, because there is a) the uncle tom, and b) the revolutionist. Stowe presented TWO paths, both of which were filled by a slave.In a historical context, the word is racist, case closed. Nader is stupid he thought the remark would sound quirky and a bit funny, I bring up Michael Richards because it is relevant. Nader, like Richards, did not think before he spoke. THe only difference is Richards realized he was wrong and apologized. Nader firmly resolved that nothing was wrong with that term.Find me a black person who wasn't offended by that remark? It really doesn't matter how people who aren't black interpreted it, because it wouldn't offend them. And the majority of the lower class is white people, so don't use that stupid statistic you're attempting to tout to try and put Obama in a Naderistic box: "he's black, why hasn't he mentioned the poor blacks" boy, that doesn't sound racist at allAnd Nader doesn't do more than Obama "preaches" about. Come to the south side of the Chi and ask someone. Try and tell me he didn't help all the people with no health insurance get some. or the out of work steel workers to unionize and strong arm their jobs back. Or the people who Mayor Daley thought he could gentrify fight back against city hall and keep their homes. Ha, Obama hasn't done shit, right? Tell a nigga that on the south side. Teeth, ground.Noone said Nader NEVER did anything. He does not do anything now. At all. He complains on political news shows and launches stupid presidential campaigns. He hasn't done anything relevant in at least 10 years. Therefore, all of your arguments are nullified.And at the risk of giving you ammo to call ME a racist, if you aren't black YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND WHY HIS COMMENT WAS OC...like I said, find me ONE black person who doesn't think that was a bad comment, could have been phrased another way, or is downright pissed about it, and you will have your argument. But the dominant societies views of words isn't what matters when a subculture is offended. That argument is like the folks in the 60's saying that "nigger" was an acceptable substitute for negro.The crux of the argument is that were it a white person; let's say Jon Edwards for the sake of argument; who had won this election, the phrase Uncle Tom would have never escaped Ralph Nader's mouth, and it is thus a racially motivated and boarderline racist comment. If you call every black person with a tattoo Tupac, it's racist. Same logic applies to Uncle Tom.
oh and I guess I have the choice to be a good guy or a nigger...ya that's it...it's not racist cuz i have a CHOICE
It has not been historically used to 'degrade' black people. It's also been used by people as an alternative way of calling a black person who, instead of trying to help his own race, he tries to help white people. Is it a RACIAL term? Yes.Is it a RACIST term? Not necessarily. There is a difference between the two. Ralph Nader is NOT a racist person. To argue that is simply stupid.Also, trying to flip it around and saying "Nader called Obama a little nigger..." could be perceived as laughable at first, since it makes logically no sense whatsoever, but it's absolutely horrible when you think about it. The fact that someone can spin words so much to make someone as humble as Nader to be seen as a racist is absurd.Also, for the record, Stowe has argued that he his intentions were not to show the black person as "bad", but that's how some people perceived it as.Also, Nader did not think it was funny. It's just simple English, and it worked well in a parallel structured sentence. Was it the best thing for him to say? Maybe not. But it's NOT an issue to be concerned about. The fact that you're sitting here arguing this bullshit with me instead of focusing on what Nader actually said proves this.Also, it's funny how you assume that I'm not black. Oh, and I don't need to come to South Side Chicago since I live here. I can step outside and ask someone what Obama has done, but I don't need to. I know Obama has done a lot. I never said he did nothing. It wasn't my point. My point was that Nader does more work than Obama, and that's a pure fact. For you to say some stupid shit like he hasn't done anything the past 10 years is ridiculous, ignorant, uninformed, naive, and just plain stupid. I don't want to call you a stupid person or offend you, btu you are just spouting lies in your arguments now. I concede that Obama does work, but Nader is a pure example of someone who does consumer advocacy, community work, and helps people. I never meant to imply blacks were the majority of the poor class, but for Obama to not focus on the poor, even though it has a lot of blacks, is weak. I'm not saying he has to focus on his race SOLELY, but it'd be pretty stupid for him to ignore them. The poor class has not been talked about once by Obama, and people who excuse this or even justify it are insane. And don't try to imply I'm racist.
first of all, again i say that the intentions of the novel are irrelevant, because a word CANNOT be detached from its historical context. The historical context of Uncle Tom is racist. The word cannot be separated from that. Again I say that you won't understand that unless you were black, which clearly you aren't and don't. I'm sorry, but its cool that you can empathize with a group of people, but you will never understand the power of words unless you experienced the brunt of them. Uncle Tom is an historically racist AND racially charged expression, that cannot be perceived or used in any other way, regardless of intentions. It's not laughable to say he called Obama a little nigger. I didn't say thats what he intended, I said that's what it is. Simply put, you can't be an Uncle Tom unless you're lower than someone, so Obama must be subservient to someone in order to be an Uncle Tom.Uncle Tom didn't forgo his own people for the interest of whites...he did so in the interest of HIS MASTER. Regardless of the intentions, the use of that phrase comes with the implicit notion that Barack Obama is a slave, I don't care what Nader meant, I care what the historical context of that word is. And if you don't think I'm right, go find some videos from when Al Sharpton called Colin Powell and Uncle Tom and everyone freaked out, including Jesse Jackson. The end result was Al Sharpton apologizing saying he could have phrased it 10x better.It's also stupid of Nader to equate corporations with White people. Uncle Tom only applies to white people. It doesn't apply to some magical group of anyones liek corporations or anything else you want to use it for. Therefore its racially charged and its use in reference to ONLY a black man BECAUSE he is black becomes racist. As I said, he wouldn't have used that phrase about John McCain or Jon Edwards, would he? No, he wouldn't. Nader thought that the Uncle Same/Uncle Tom would be a kitschy and quirky pun, and it simply wasn't. And Ralph Nader has absolutely not done anything in the last 10 years. Show me something constructive that he's done since the late 90s. Noone implied you were racist, get off the defensive tip. My only point is that you can't fully understand how bad Nader fucked up until you live your life as a black man [or woman].
wtf is up with all the history SOL essay's???
aw come on KayCee, i just had to show Mr. Anonymous he's not as smart as he thinks he isLOL
Sure. I'm not smart, I'm obviously not black (why you would jump to that conclusion still leaves me puzzled), I obviously don't live in South Side Chicago (when I do...), Ralph Nader has done NOTHING in the past 10 years, and he's a racist old bastard.Meanwhile, anyone who says anything that might be correct should be ignored if he uses a racial term.It's this kind of logic that will lead us to hell. I'm done arguing this. peace.
did I say he had an invalid point? I'm pretty sure I said he should've thought of a better way to say it. I never even said he was a racist. I said it was a racist thing to say and he should think before he speaks. And Yes, he hasn't done anything but run (fruitlessly) for president for the last 10 years. Oh and talk at Universities. That sure helps people. And I know you aren't black because you would be offended by his statement if you were.done. peace. but its cool when people are wrong and admit, regardless of how passive-aggressively they choose to do so
Check out "America", a hip-hop video featuring Barack Obama, that was featured on CNN made by a group of college kids:http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-131150?ref=feeds%2Foncnn
Ralph Nader is a great man. Hes not like you Robots who are blinded by pop culture and only listen/do what seems is cool and popular nowadays. We're living in a 2 Party Dictatorship. Just the fact that these debates wont even allow Ralph Nader or any other candidate to vote is STUPID and OUTRAGOUSBtw, Uncle Tom is not racist, Sly Fox was just trying to seem offended (they are white arent they?) and to come up with an excuse to put down an Independant who says no to the present New World Order.Shutup Kaycee you imbecil. and all those who are blinded to the fact that the media is what controls your mind. Peace !!
As a black man, i dont see what was so offending. He simply said that he was going to be a Great President. or just a Corporate puppet for the government (mainly white, so obviously "uncle tommish")Since when was that a cuss word ???
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